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[PPP]

Proofing was done, and corrections were offered.

[bahh]

Yes I have had translations done and I work as a freelance translator myself.

Buying a product means you are entitled to certain standards regarding quality. Delivering content without even proofing it first, is a pretty serious mistake.

Originally Posted by PPP

Seriously, have you ever had translations done?

[TheDonk]

Originally Posted by PPP

Name one, then name one where an enormous amount of work is done in advance of payment, then the client refuses to pay, then refuses to send any evidence of the problem so the contractor can address and fix the issue.

C'mon, this is not standard practice in anything, except slavery I suppose.

Construction. You build it wrong, you fix it or get paid nothing.
Auto parts manufacturing. Build it wrong, don't get paid for it.
I can go on and on.

Why is it PSO's fault that the translator is so stupid as to do all this work up front with no pre-payment? If the translator doesn't ask for it, that's his problem not PSO's. It's also not PSO's responsibility to point out every imperfection, which in a translation of this size could potentially be enormous. If PSO says "the Russian translations are screwed up, fix it", then that should be enough. It's the translators job to translate, not PSO's. PSO hired the translator...to translate! "Quality" in this case means that someone properly educated in the language, someone who understands proper sentence structure and grammar, is the translator. Then, that person must take the time to execute the translation properly. If these things cannot be accomplished by the translator who's agreed to the terms, he's the one at fault for that.

PPP, let's not get this heated. I've always respected what I've read from you, and truly this has nothing to do with you or me anyway.

TheDonk

[PPP]

"Construction. You build it wrong, you fix it or get paid nothing."

You stated it yourself: the "you fix it" part. Obviously again this shows PSO is wrong. The translator offered to fix errors.

"I can go on and on."

You proved my point with the first one.

"Why is it PSO's fault that the translator is so stupid as to do all this work up front with no pre-payment? If the translator doesn't ask for it, that's his problem not PSO's."

It's not. How is it the translator's fault that PSO won't send material to be corrected?

"It's also not PSO's responsibility to point out every imperfection, which in a translation of this size could potentially be enormous. If PSO says 'the Russian translations are screwed up, fix it', then that should be enough."

That's silly. "Hey this 100,000 word document is screwed up, fix it." C'mon, that's a million miles past unreasonable.

"It's the translators job to translate, not PSO's. PSO hired the translator... to translate!"

He did.

""Quality" in this case means that someone properly educated in the language, someone who understands proper sentence structure and grammar, is the translator. Then, that person must take the time to execute the translation properly. If these things cannot be accomplished by the translator who's agreed to the terms, he's the one at fault for that."

The quality level is not objective, but again it is important to point out it is not at all relevant to the issue, which is that PSO did not allow corrections to be made, then charged the contractor for corrections they did themselves (with a so far mysterious way of coming up with that number).

"PPP, let's not get this heated. I've always respected what I've read from you, and truly this has nothing to do with you or me anyway."

I'm not trying to be heated, and so don't take it that way. I'm simply pointing out, here and above, that PSO has no leg to stand on no matter how you look at it. The refusal to allow corrections is only the most obvious inappropriate behavior.

The eighth bottom line that doing business with either of these companies should scare the bejesus out of anybody is not really relevant to the fact PSO's behavior can't be justified. They paniced and acted badly. They should fix the problem and move on.

[LadyHoldem]

The craziest thing I see here is doing that much work .. without payment in advance, I hope you learned from that. Secondly, whether it was substandard or not.. notice they negotiated prior to the deal, at the end of the deal, PSO decided what was fair. If the translations were done mechanically, as the IM suggests.. then PSO got screwed by some renegade translators. If the translations were done by actual people, and were just 'substandard' then firstly, that's a matter of perspective. I swear I am the best gambling writer on these forums, (contractible) .. but I betchya.. there's someone that disagrees with me. I am asked for my references 3-20 times per week. . . examples of my work, and actual people that new clients can PM for a reference.. did you check references? From the IM it sounds like he's plain shady, I didn't see where there was a denial to those allegations of automated translations... but you should have found that out earlier, when you looked at his previous work .. (of course that would have meant nothing to you.. so you should have asked a friend to look I suppose) .. Hind sight is 20/20 however.. a lot of things that should have happened on both ends didn't .. of course again that's subjective.. if you didn't use human translation.. then WOW that's some spendy translation.. an a topic that's really missing in this thread.. I think ... and I am only guessing here.. that the point is likely moot.. it doesn't really look as though PSO intends to change their decision via some public vote.. other contractors will I'm sure get their payments up front from the site.. and I'm sure translations here will be triple checked as soon as they arrive. . . Aside from that, what is there left, legal action if you cannot resolve your differences? Oh and the examples from Donk.. (nothing personal..) I wouldn't try those.. stealing a service in most places is a felony, it's a much bigger offence than just stealing something.. go shoplift, but don't screw the cab driver (especially not the cab driver, because i used to be one !) Also, if you screw a land based service provider.. the auto mechanic persay... you generally have the right to place a lien on the title of the car. Same for the contractor at your house.. just try not payin him.. see how fast he places a lien on THAT title Now, all tht in mind, that legal stuff seems to get a lot trickier when you're working online.. with people from various countries, deciding jurisdiction etc.

[LadyHoldem]

A side note.. I pushed enter..

[TheDonk]

"Construction. You build it wrong, you fix it or get paid nothing."

You stated it yourself: the "you fix it" part. Obviously again this shows PSO is wrong. The translator offered to fix errors.

Not true. PSO told them about the translation problems. Why is it too big of a job for the translator to check over 100,000 words, but not too big of job for PSO? Again, PSO hired a translation service, not the other way around. The translator did not hire PSO to proofread the work, that was their job.

"I can go on and on."

You proved my point with the first one.

Not so, see above

"Why is it PSO's fault that the translator is so stupid as to do all this work up front with no pre-payment? If the translator doesn't ask for it, that's his problem not PSO's."

It's not. How is it the translator's fault that PSO won't send material to be corrected?

It's not PSO's job to point out every little mistake. It is however the translators job to find the problems when they proofread. When the translator was told the work was "crap" that should've clued them in to the fact that the errors were many. Yeah, for the real world PSO should've done more, but that still doesn't make it their job. $100,000 + makes it the translators job.

"It's also not PSO's responsibility to point out every imperfection, which in a translation of this size could potentially be enormous. If PSO says 'the Russian translations are screwed up, fix it', then that should be enough."

That's silly. "Hey this 100,000 word document is screwed up, fix it." C'mon, that's a million miles past unreasonable.

See above

"It's the translators job to translate, not PSO's. PSO hired the translator... to translate!"

He did.

According to PSO, poorly. I haven't read the work, so I'm just basing this comment on what PSO has stated.

""Quality" in this case means that someone properly educated in the language, someone who understands proper sentence structure and grammar, is the translator. Then, that person must take the time to execute the translation properly. If these things cannot be accomplished by the translator who's agreed to the terms, he's the one at fault for that."

The quality level is not objective, but again it is important to point out it is not at all relevant to the issue, which is that PSO did not allow corrections to be made, then charged the contractor for corrections they did themselves (with a so far mysterious way of coming up with that number).

I own a couple of businesses myself, and I've owned several in my lifetime. First, I make certain things are done right the first time. If someone misses something I don't ask the client to tell me every detail. I find what's wrong, and fix it - simple as that. Oh yeah, maybe that's why I never run into these issues.

TheDonk

[TheDonk]

Originally Posted by LadyHoldem

Oh and the examples from Donk.. (nothing personal..) I wouldn't try those.. stealing a service in most places is a felony, it's a much bigger offence than just stealing something.. go shoplift, but don't screw the cab driver (especially not the cab driver, because i used to be one !) Also, if you screw a land based service provider.. the auto mechanic persay... you generally have the right to place a lien on the title of the car. Same for the contractor at your house.. just try not payin him.. see how fast he places a lien on THAT title Now, all tht in mind, that legal stuff seems to get a lot trickier when you're working online.. with people from various countries, deciding jurisdiction etc.

I wasn't suggesting anything. It's just a fact that if a contractor hires a concrete sub to lay a foundation, but he lays the wrong floorplan - he won't get paid. It's just a fact, not telling anyone what to do.

If Ford contracts a company to build them a million side door panels, gives proper specs to the manufacturer, and receives something different, Ford will not accept or pay for the parts. Again, not a suggestion, just a fact.

I didn't and would never suggest anyone try to get something for nothing. In fact, people like that make me sick. I must have written something that gave you a different impression of what I was saying. My bad.

TheDonk

[TheDonk]

I'm just gonna leave this topic now, things are getting a bit out of whack.

[akhil_jks]

Originally Posted by TheDonk

Construction. You build it wrong, you fix it or get paid nothing.
Auto parts manufacturing. Build it wrong, don't get paid for it.
I can go on and on.

Why is it PSO's fault that the translator is so stupid as to do all this work up front with no pre-payment? If the translator doesn't ask for it, that's his problem not PSO's. It's also not PSO's responsibility to point out every imperfection, which in a translation of this size could potentially be enormous. If PSO says "the Russian translations are screwed up, fix it", then that should be enough. It's the translators job to translate, not PSO's. PSO hired the translator...to translate! "Quality" in this case means that someone properly educated in the language, someone who understands proper sentence structure and grammar, is the translator. Then, that person must take the time to execute the translation properly. If these things cannot be accomplished by the translator who's agreed to the terms, he's the one at fault for that.

PPP, let's not get this heated. I've always respected what I've read from you, and truly this has nothing to do with you or me anyway.

TheDonk

What are you saying brother. You said "If PSO says "the Russian translations are screwed up, fix it", then that should be enough. It's the translators job to translate, not PSO's. PSO hired the translator...to translate! " ......did I rejected the amendments they demanded?


Please, please note that they asked for amendments and I AGREED. And they DID NOT sent any document and after sometime said the next translations are ok and will let me know if anything needs to be fixed. They still DID NOT sent any material instead deducted money from our hard work! How can you blame us TheDonk??