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  #11  
Old 09-18-2007, 06:20 AM
addaminsane addaminsane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle View Post
Hi All,

Thank you for your patience in this urgent issue.

Let me start off by stating in 100% confidence that, fair play and security is of paramount importance to Absolute Poker. We have temporarily frozen accounts that have been brought to our attention while we perform an extensive investigation.

While we are continuing with our investigation, we have yet to find any evidence of wrong doing. Our game client only receives data regarding the individuals hand and no other players hole cards, except in the event of a showdown.

The player’s and their respective actions that are in question, all come from a small sample of Hands. We have researched their play exhaustively and have found no proof that they had any knowledge of other player’s hole cards.

There were hands that were played poorly -- from a poker strategy perspective -- and these players did receive a fortunate result.
So far we have no evidence that substantiates claims that any of the players were involved in chip dumping, or any other improper activity.

Because of the seriousness of these allegations, we have not closed the investigation and are continuing to look very closely into this matter.We will notify you if we obtain any new information regarding these claims.

Kindest Regards,
Danielle
I hate hearing all these rumors about AP. Even if they're not true the mess with peoples minds even people who are highly skeptical. AP has always been my favorite room as a player.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2007, 12:25 PM
chrisptp chrisptp is offline
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i think jeremy has the right to remove whatever he wants, i just wanted to know why it had been removed. his choice vs absolute demanding is a big difference to me.

i posted the story on PTP news because it passed a litmus test of credibility for me. support from respected posters and mods over at 2+2 plus serious questions raised by players who make too much money at high stakes on a regular basis to be irrational. i also spoke directly with a couple of players involved.

absolute's statement on the issue is fine, but it denies the blatant chip dumping evidence presented at 2+2, and i also didn't get any answers to the basic questions i sent them via email regarding their software.

i'm not trying to start any kind of debate, i'm just explaining why i thought it was a story worth posting.
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Beanie Beanie is online now
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i think coming on here and making people aware is one thing. I believe the thread suggested to pull Absolute and UB, I believed then as I do now that the issue will be dealt with and that Jeremy's response is appropriate.

We have all sold out to the man. It is not our job as affiliates to police this stuff. Add that to the fact that I think the issue is fairly minor (very limited amount of people affected) and I don't think you have this huge scandal.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2007, 06:52 PM
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This definetly seems like more of a case of a few isolated incidents that require investigations, rather than a "huge scandal" like Beanie said. If it were more rampant on the site then I think there would definetly be a bigger problem, but this only seems to be the case with less than a handfull of accounts.

Also, doesn't Kanawakhe control most of the servers? Has an investigation been opened with them?
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2007, 08:56 PM
PPP PPP is offline
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Whether to promote a room for any reason is a valid reason to open a thread, including how a cardroom responds to an allegation. Nutjob speculations about specific people are rude and unprofessional though. This is a place for business discussions, not hurtful gossip.
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  #16  
Old 09-19-2007, 12:49 AM
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LadyHoldem LadyHoldem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisptp View Post
well, while the claims of rigging might be thin, the chip dumping seemed to be fairly clear cut, at least based on what was posted at 2+2.

that seems to undermine a decent amount of this statement. i understand the desire to poke fun at conspiracy nuts, but something still isn't right here...
Chip dumping basically just means.. giving away your chips on purpose.. money laundering in most cases.

As citizens i we might care, as poker players, I don't see why we'd give a damn. As affiliates making $$ from rake.. GOOOO CHIP DUMPERS!
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2007, 07:13 PM
rakewell rakewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle View Post
Hi All,

Thank you for your patience in this urgent issue.

Let me start off by stating in 100% confidence that, fair play and security is of paramount importance to Absolute Poker. We have temporarily frozen accounts that have been brought to our attention while we perform an extensive investigation.

While we are continuing with our investigation, we have yet to find any evidence of wrong doing. Our game client only receives data regarding the individuals hand and no other players hole cards, except in the event of a showdown.

The player’s and their respective actions that are in question, all come from a small sample of Hands. We have researched their play exhaustively and have found no proof that they had any knowledge of other player’s hole cards.

There were hands that were played poorly -- from a poker strategy perspective -- and these players did receive a fortunate result.
So far we have no evidence that substantiates claims that any of the players were involved in chip dumping, or any other improper activity.

Because of the seriousness of these allegations, we have not closed the investigation and are continuing to look very closely into this matter.We will notify you if we obtain any new information regarding these claims.

Kindest Regards,
Danielle
Undoubtedly some readers will think I'm just nitpicking here--but there is a larger point to it.

There are at least ten obvious errors of grammar, spelling, and punctuation in Danielle's post, which is pretty remarkable in a message of only 11 sentences--pretty remarkably bad, that is.

I fully recognize that, for the most part, online chats are highly informal. I certainly don't proofread and rewrite as carefully for such posts as I do for, say, business letters or for things intended for publication. Hell, there may be little errors left undetected in this very message (though I'll try to eliminate them).

But when one is posting a formal message in one's capacity as a representative of a company, one presumably uses one's utmost care in getting things right. This presumption implies, then, that Danielle's very best writing as a spokesperson for Absolute Poker means about one orthographic/grammatical error per sentence, a level of carelessness--or outright ignorance of the basic tools of the English language--that one might expect in, say, a sixth-grader.

Here's the larger point: Danielle proves beyond any serious doubt by this post that she doesn't care one bit about getting details right. We can also assume that nobody checks her work (or that whoever does check her work is just as careless as Danielle). If she can't be bothered to care about the *form* of her official response, on what possible grounds can a reader be convinced that she pays any more attention to getting the *substance* of it right?

In my experience, people either pay attention to details or they don't, and either way it's not a phenomenon that is limited to grammar and punctuation, isolated from everything else that they do. A person who makes a large number of such errors when trying his or her best to get them right probably makes lots and lots of other kinds of errors in his or her work, too.

I know nothing about Danielle other than this one post, but I think it's a highly revealing window. To me, the message is that neither Danielle personally nor AP corporately can be trusted to care about getting things right. This isn't to say that either she or the company is deliberately dishonest, but it *is* to say that she is probably not the kind of person who would really be sure to know enough detailed facts about the situation to be reliable.

Naturally, just because a post is perfectly constructed by a bevy of skilled PR people and lawyers wouldn't mean that the claimed underlying investigation was thorough, or that the facts reported in the post were correct and honest. You don't even need a high school diploma in order to compose a short letter with good grammar, spelling, and puncutation. But the *lack* of those things pretty clear implies, to me, a general lackadaisical approach to things, at least by Danielle, and very possibly by the AP staff generally. This is not a good thing when one is attempting to convey an image that everything has been looked at in intricate detail, and all found to be in order. All is *not* in order, quite clearly.

A clean restroom in a restaurant doesn't necessarily mean that the kitchen, too, is spotless. But if the restroom is filthy, there's a good chance the kitchen is, too--because if they don't care about uncleanliness where they know you *will* see it, they can't possibly care about uncleanliness where they know you *won't* see it. AP doesn't care if we see egregious sloppiness in public missives; why should we assume that there isn't egregious sloppiness behind the scenes as well? If they won't even bother to proofread the official, public response to these rumors, on what basis would I conclude that they bothered to do a careful investigation?

Danielle's post sounds, to me, suspiciously like a bedbug letter--and a very poorly written one at that. (Google "bedbug letter" if you don't understand that term.)
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:43 PM
kaus kaus is online now
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Are you kidding me.......omg .......that is "the larger point"?

Punctuation and grammer

Did you join today just to write that?
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:51 PM
SharkScope SharkScope is offline
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erm, perhaps this thread should be locked to existing members only?

I don't think rakewell's post deserves a serious response. So perhaps we could all practice our English grammar.

I've been playing Where's Wally for a while now and trying to spot the "at least 10 obvious errors of grammar, spelling and punctuation in Danielle's post" but so far haven't done too well.

I ran it through a spell checker and drew a blank. In the 2nd paragraph i think you could argue the "in 100% confidence" should be in commas rather than comma at the "that". 4th paragraph there shouldn't be an ' in "player's". Final paragraph there should be a space in between "matter." and "We". So thats 3.

I couldn't see anything in the grammatical structure that seemed inappropriate for an Affiliate Manager posting in an affiliate forum, regardless of whether or not they were rushing to get important information to their concerned affiliates.

Am I missing something?

Perhaps we could get back to discussions on how unfounded mass hysteria affects poker rooms and their affiliates? Or maybe we should play another game: Put ourselves in an AP employee's shoes and suggest what you would put in your statement to the public, given you've been assured, and believe, that any matter has been properly investigated and found not to be true.
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:53 PM
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Aidan Aidan is offline
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I'm not really understanding what you're trying to get across here? What kind of reply are you expecting to receive after attacking Danielle. I don't understand what one can gain after a post like that....
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