1700 $ deduced from my revenue for "fraud" !!!

[JohnH]

I would hate to be the accountant that has to deal with all of this.
I would love to check my party account one day to find a huge bonus payment... If party is taking money from one one affiliate, then they should really give that money to the affiliate who deserves it.

[Beanie]

the issue is simple. If they could detect it, why didn't they? Party will not pay old affiliates, they will pocket that dough. This is a predatory move.

Also, why 8 months back? Why not 3 months back or 1 month. If they have the ability to detect it, why not now. Was it not reasonable that someone getting a free $50 would tell everyone in their household.

Like I said I don't have a dog in this race and I am thinking of this issue as a macro issue. When rooms collude against us that is a bad thing. When rooms take money from 8 months ago when they knew of the business practices of those people its a bad thing. They did get some value from those accounts, because they got to say Party Poker got 75k new accounts monthly over the last quarter. When they couldn't deceive investors any longer, they took this dramatic step. Its like being Tony Soprano having Paulie whack a guy and then docking his pay for breaking the law. Its simple, if these accounts were bad they were bad for longer than 8 months, either close the affiliates account or deduct month to month. 8 months is unreasonable.

Lastly, this is directed to Jeremy, occasionally you get some bad traffic from an affiliate thats obviously not working in your best interest. The majority though I would imagine is not so clear. Would all of the CPA guys like it if the rooms suddenly said, looking back at your traffic we see a clear pattern of abuse, not only will we reduce your CPA but we are going to deduct 50k from you. Mostly because we can and you really have no other option. How you like them apples?

This is just silly that even one affiliate would see this as a good thing. This is horrible from a macro perspective and it continues the Wild Wild West mentality that these cardrooms have towards us.

[regalospoker.com]

Same problem for me my account is now -$3800, also they have stolen my IOG payments, since they have bought iog in the past months.

Of course all my party, empire and FairPoker banners have dissapeared...

They say they have good numbers to get stock graph going up after UIGEA, but all the players have 2,3 and even more accounts.

[ethomps]

Has anyone spoke with their affiliate managers about this situation?

If so, what did they say when you asked: "are you going to refund the original affiliate?"

I would love to hear what there answer is to that question.

After all.....the money belongs to someone, and that someone is not Party.

[Beanie]

Party would not go to this extreme measure and reward past affiliates. Though in their defense much of the money is likely theirs because of CPA's and ads.

[Jeremy]

Lastly, this is directed to Jeremy, occasionally you get some bad traffic from an affiliate thats obviously not working in your best interest. The majority though I would imagine is not so clear. Would all of the CPA guys like it if the rooms suddenly said, looking back at your traffic we see a clear pattern of abuse, not only will we reduce your CPA but we are going to deduct 50k from you. Mostly because we can and you really have no other option. How you like them apples?

Funny you should bring that up. I am stuck for around $25K right now from the online casinos we used to have on here. Basically I paid out all the affiliates according to the monthly reports which THEY sent showing qualified players (and no mention of fraud), then when we invoiced them, they basically said "fuck off, too much off your traffic was fraudulent."

So in terms of apples.......a few bad ones ruin it for everyone, and in this situation I am left holding the bag for every affiliate who was paid for casino players on the PAW Network.

So even on CPA, you can get screwed. Hopefully this gives better insight into why I hate incentive marketing so much lately.

Nonetheless I agree with you Beanie, it is doubtful Party is going to be crediting affiliates back whom the players originally belonged too. If that is the case, then I agree it is shady what Party is doing.

[PPP]

Originally Posted by Beanie

the issue is simple. If they could detect it, why didn't they? Party will not pay old affiliates, they will pocket that dough. This is a predatory move.

That's not what was claimed. If they don't pay original affiliates, that will be bad, but in no way can this be called predatory. The bottom line is affiliates being denied money DO NOT DESRVE IT. Period. Not paying money to people who don't deserve it is certainly not predatory.

I can't imagine how anyone would not see this as the greatest thing for affiliates ever, unless of course someone was a poacher.

Whether they could detect it before or not is no issue at all, like saying the cops should have been able find out who committed every robbery if they devoted the resources to it. Sure, there could have been a better way, but they are doing the right thing now, finally.

Originally Posted by Beanie

I am thinking of this issue as a macro issue... When rooms take money from 8 months ago when they knew of the business practices of those people its a bad thing.

How could this possibly be so? That doesn't make sense. It is ALWAYS a great thing when rooms right wrongs. It is always in affiliates best interest to fix their screwups. This is a slam dunk. There isn't even a slight negative downside for affiliates. Even the free $50 guys make out like bandits, literally, since money being not paid now is dwarfed by what they collected previously and almost certainly did not deserve.

Originally Posted by Beanie

Would all of the CPA guys like it if the rooms suddenly said, looking back at your traffic we see a clear pattern of abuse, not only will we reduce your CPA but we are going to deduct 50k from you. Mostly because we can and you really have no other option. How you like them apples?

Okay, I stop promoting them. So what? Again at worst I lose one month's income, plus any players in the pipeline. But of course this isn't the issue. The issue is stealing players from other affiliates.

Originally Posted by Beanie

This is just silly that even one affiliate would see this as a good thing. This is horrible from a macro perspective and it continues the Wild Wild West mentality that these cardrooms have towards us.

Seriously, how can you possibly say that? There is no downside here for affiliates in general. It is the biggest positive for affiliates ever. You seem to be looking at this in the most limited way possible, not even considering that affiliates having money taken from them are still way, way, way ahead.

This is the first step in the day that serious affiliates have been looking for for a long time. At the most basic level, Party is going to be making a lot more money because they won't be paying double, triple and worse dippers. At the more important level, geneuine players now become more valuable. Serious affiliates have had their compensation level depressed for years because of poaching and bogus players. While some affiliates think it is the height of cool to poach a few players at $xx, serious affiliates know that without the ability to poach, player values for affiliates just went up -- just to pull a number out of the air, say $50... and they went up $150 or more for Party.

More accurate reporting, less cheating, higher player values... there are massive positives and not even a tiny negative from this.

[Jeremy]

I am glad I moved this into the general section.....this reminds me of the legendary party rakeback thread that went on a couple years ago. This is actually a great debate though. Especially when a few of the big hitters jump in.


It's Friday 4:00 p.m. Have a great weekend all.

[PPP]

The biggest victim of poaching, by far, is Party itself. Imagine paying $75 or whatever for a player you already have! Party will never get back all the millions ripped off from them because of poaching and double dipping.

This is a major step in the maturity of the industry. The company makes more money, affiliates who generate new players will make more money, and honest players will benefit from a slightly more honest game (as multiple accounts aboviously increases the ability to cheat).

The only people who will not benefit from this are the habitual uninstall/reinstall abusers, and affiliates who do not produce new players but rather only refer existing players. Neither of these groups contribute anything to anybody. They get money that belongs to the cardrooms and genuine affiliates. Cutting that leeching down significantly is puts more money in the hands of people who deserve it, especially productive affiliates.

[xyphlo]

Party is also deducting $1600 from my account. I had some money in my affiliate account that they "recovered" and I still owe them. It really upset me because I only tried the "free bankroll" thing for a few months and got one player from it. I don't know how I owe them so much money. I guess I have to take their word for it because they haven't given me any real information besides the whole duplicate account thing. No dates, player names, nothing. Ever since the unlawful gambling bill passed, I just have banners and text links up. I rarely even update my Party Poker page. This whole thing sucks!