PokerListings droping Full Tilt, Stars, UB and Absolute

[Beanie]

I actually don't mind this from either side really. I think PL is not being completely honest about the value of the traffic that they sent considering their recent penalities.

I sort of got tired of hearing about how great PL was and subsequently hear about how much they charged. PL didn't need to throw those guys under the bus though, that seems a little fishy and unprofessional.

Looking at RakeBrian.com too they took every one down, so they are clearly serious. Is it possible that they got their accounts closed? If you historically sent players that were valued at $400 or so and then they all became worth $80. Then you need to take the hit with the rooms. That is what a partner does.

It always bothered me that they would take CPA's and then also be in the rakeback business. It just seems you have to pick your business IMO, but clearly no rooms had a problem with this. So maybe I need to change my mind.

[Kyle]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of the various conversations between pokerlistings and the rooms. Perhaps pokerlistings didn't get the price that they wanted, because the rooms thought they lost their authority a bit, and PL came back mockingly "if we have no authority, then nobody should listen to us when we tell the world how you wont fulfill your bonuses".

I'm not so sure about one of the comments above saying "if the top guy gets a higher cpa, the lower guys will too" . That might be true in most salary based businesses to a certain extent but poker affiliating is a different ball game. Affiliate departments don't have unlimited budgets.

[fatbill]

More to the point, it is lunacy to expect cardrooms to pay the same CPA for US players today as a year ago. That is just flat out stupid. Anyone who thinks a US player is worth as much as a year ago has been in a coma.

And who is to say that the quality of their player did not change/drop? It looked like they were promoting bonus hunters on the main page... maybe I didnt spend enought time there....

[edmc]

Originally Posted by scottmc

I don't think it's any coincindence these are all US facing rooms. Like a previous poster mentioned the value of US players has gone way down (increased transaction costs, decreased play, etc etc). Add to this the fact the Google penalty and associated decrease in referrals its no wonder these poker rooms aren't going to pay what PokerListings is asking for.

An interesting thread over there:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-f...ol-vt5137.html

Well $300 CPA is a bit alien to most of us but I still use mostly mgr & still have to figure if its better taking a $100 CPA in the current climate, Pokerlistings do not bring in a better quality of player, they just bring in a shit load more.

[Jeremy]

I'm sure there is more to the story than what's published on that page, however that's neither here nor there. As affiliates we can all promote whomever we choose to in whatever positions we want. We determine the best rooms for our individual sites, not the market.

"if the top guy gets a higher cpa, the lower guys will too" . That might be true in most salary based businesses to a certain extent but poker affiliating is a different ball game. Affiliate departments don't have unlimited budgets.

Spot on Kyle. One of the things to keep in mind when rooms are listed on the bigger sites in the industry is that there is more involved than just affiliate trackers and payments. Gaz and I had a discussion this morning about it actually. When rooms want to be on the bigger sites, they are of course paying a CPA, but they are also thinking about the branding and exposure. Whether they get the maximum player value or not, they are getting thousands of eyeballs on their logo and brand each day from these well respected and industry authority sites.

So in one respect it is also somewhat of a media buy as well as an overall marketing expense. For a room to pay someone $300 CPA's that is only getting 100 uniques a day is not worth it, even if the player value is greater than the room getting 20K uniques a day.

Food for thought......

[Beanie]

great point. I do think throwing out various numbers minimizes the argument though. I think the actual numbers would likely prove your point more (but maybe less) what do I know. Certainly rooms want traffic, they want to say to their bosses they are geniuses. It does not matter how much that traffic costs or how much its real value is, that is what is silly about this industry.

Seems like some rooms are starting to figure out they might have been getting a bad deal.

[adioking]

Apparently Absolute doesn't want traffic. They don't seem to care how much traffic I can send them. Makes sense what Pokerlistings is doing.

Also, Bodog is still listed, and they take US players... so PPP is right once again.