Purple Lounge? No longer listed?

[corpfan1]

I noticed Purple Lounge is no longer listed on PAW. Also, trackers are not available for this.

What is happening with the PAW program?? Seems like nothing is very stable right now.

[bahh]

Please answer ASAP

[Jeremy]

What is happening is that people are sending mass players that make the minimum deposit, play the minumum amount of hands and then the rooms owe a BIG CPA.

In other words affiliates are trying to roll us for the big CPA's, and as you can imagine rooms are not very keen to this and are saying "No New Trackers".

Sorry we just provide the opportunities, but can only back our affiliates up so much. It's actualy really a shame that this is taking place as it ruins it for the rest of us.

[corpfan1]

Well, then maybe we should revert to the idea that we thought about in the beginning...only select affiliates should be part of the program.

People who are established in this industry...or who have been around and active with PAW for a couple of years now.

I dunno, just an idea.

The other idea would be MGR only...instead of high CPAs...better than average MGR. Is this not possible with the stats system? It could be updated weekly to start on Sunday evenings, so everyone could check their stats on Monday morning. At least then we KNOW what is happening.

The poker rooms that agree to be part of it could customize banners for us with special incentives that go with the MGR trackers...such as special bonuses or tourney invites.

This is how to take this to the next level Jeremy...there will never be a solid solution to the CPA style I think.

The tournies could be PAW tournies rather than Poker News....that way they would have a name across the poker circle...also, maybe avoid freerolls...have solid buy-ins with extra prizes, cash or satellite tokens. This way we can attract real players. These bonuses would only be for depositors of course. The higher the deposit/raked hands, the higher the tourney/bonus/incentive.

We need to create a system that works for us and attracts REAL PLAYERS who want to play for REAL STAKES.

That way it is a win-win for all of us.

What do you think?

I think the initial goal was to create the ULTIMATE POKER AFFILIATE PROGRAM.

I think there is a lot of work to do here.

Just my opinion.

[xpertadvice4u]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

What is happening is that people are sending mass players that make the minimum deposit, play the minumum amount of hands and then the rooms owe a BIG CPA.

In other words affiliates are trying to roll us for the big CPA's, and as you can imagine rooms are not very keen to this and are saying "No New Trackers".

I do not think this is an entirely fair characterization.
The vast majority of new players are FISH.
The system requires them for the so-called big players to feast off.

The fish are not entirely stupid, and are legitimately hesitant to deposit a large amount of money. The Poker Rooms know this, and set a low enough minimum for most Fish to bite at.

The problem is that $25 is not going to last a fish very long, and a lot are going to bust out. When they get more money available, they may or may not re-deposit....depends on how they felt about their experience with the site, the software, user-friendliness, whether they got a good run for their money...whether they felt the Poker Room gives a hoot about their business.

I would love to Promote Bodog....they are incredibly consumer-oriented and have tremendous customer relationship savvy. Fish, like me, will continue returning to a site like that time and time again.

A site that has tacky looking software, that does not bother to make their tournament listings user friendly and organized in an intelligible manner, that does not organize the ring games in a logical fashion, and has very few games available at different sized tables - is not going to make a fish very eager to come back and risk some more money.

I referred two players to Purple Lounge, both busted out, one of them redeposited...neither one enjoyed their experience - relative to certain other sites. Supposedly, Poker is for Entertainment purposes...they have a budget they have to live by, and not a bottomless bankroll for Poker purposes.

Neither one of those players lasted long enough to meet bonus requirements, I am sure. So, there was no extra loss to the room there.

So, let's say a better player lasts longer and now gets a $100 bonus.
The Poker Room is now out the $150 CPA PLUS the $100 bonus, which has to be deducted from whatever Rake was generated.

So, the Poker Room is not that much further ahead with the better player UNLESS the better player will come back and play some more and generate some more rake and keep the tables filled and churning more Rake.

What determines that? Well, I assume it is how much they enjoyed their experience with the Room and whether they can exploit the games/fish.
If they cannot find any fish to exploit, they will move on to another room.
Why bother staying? Unless they really enjoy the play for entertainment purposes.

Poker Rooms are no different from casinos, they need a steady supply of small fries to be their bread and butter, because there is only a limited number of whales to go around. The Nickel slots are a huge source of revenue for some casinos.

I am sorry, but I have not been in this business long enough to be attracting whales. I am not trying to "roll" anybody. It's a crapshoot, as far as I can see, in terms of what you are going to get in your nets when you go fishing.

Maybe the more fishing I do, I'll get better at it.

I understand Corpfan's point of view, and Jeremy's.

The arithmetic does not appear to add up: $150 CPA expenditure versus income of the rake on only $25, i.e. only $1.25 seems like a HUGE deficit.
On the individual player basis, it's a huge loss.

But, it is also a Marketing expense, and an opportunity expense, and it creates a churn of new players and indirect benefits to the Room other than simple Rake.

But, I understand that Rake is the bottom line, eventually.

Maybe the $150 CPA is a marketing expense that needs to be spent where it can have the biggest bang for the buck.

And maybe that is not with small, inexperienced affiliates....like ME.

But, still, it requires large schools of small fish to attract the killer whales.

And if a room is attracting enough fish, it will naturally attract the bigger ones, sooner or later.

And I thought that one reason the PAW program made sense was to create a larger volume of new signups...in other words, casting a bigger net, and hopefully catching bigger fish.

I am sorry it is not working...so far.

But, like I say...isn't it kind of short sighted to only look at one or two month's revenue, and just look at the individual player calculation?
Aren't there indirect benefits?

Why do the rooms need to take these measures in the first place?

I look at places like Tony G's and I just don't see why I would want to play there. There is never the selection of games I would be attracted to.

And the same thing is happening with Mansion...unless I want to play in their Poker Dome qualifiers, there is no product there that attracts me, tournament wise...and very little in the way of sit n go's or ring games.

But they have made a business decision not to offer very many MTTs other than their Branded qualifiers and satellites.

Time will tell if that model works, I guess.
But clearly, they have defined the type of player that they want, and they appear not interested in catering to any other type of player....and if you are not interested in their product you do not have to play there.

Once you have reached the top, you can afford to be exclusive, I guess.

A company that does not want to pay for the fish, either by marketing, or providing superior customer service and entertainment, will not get them.

And it will not get to the top, numbers wise...although they may be able to survive being an "exclusive boutique" type of operation.

Please educate me if I have missed the point.

I saw the PAW affiliate program to be an excellent opportunity for me to get my feet wet in the industry, and to get started earning an ROI.

Participating in PAW deprives me of the opportunity to earn a reputation and a relationship on my own with the various companies....all the credit goes to PAW.

I have never heard back from a certain Affiliate Manager since I told him I was going to promote his product through PAW.

Participating in PAW will be more important than ever, if companies refuse to pay me because I am US based.

I would like to see this work, also.

But, shouldn't there be better communication about what programs are still a priority, and should be pushed, and which trackers work?

Will the trackers issued for Purple Lounge continue to be honored, for example? For how long?

Just let people know what is going on, please.

[DontLook]

I sent 1 player to PurpleLounge to try it out and they said it was one of the worst sites they have ever played at. They refuse to redeposit. I have to agree with Xpert on this one.

I only sent in 2 players total. One through PurpleLounge and one through Titan Poker. The guy who signed up at Titan Poker liked the software so I expect them to make more deposits.

Affiliates are paid to bring new players, thats what we do. Its the Poker sites that have to do a better job at retention. Absolute Poker has a very high retention rate.

We can only do so much. I was not one of the lucky people who made a ton of cash off this. My site is still new and I am still breaking into the industry.

My question is do my CURRENT trackers even work? I have PurpleLounge, Pacific Poker, SunPoker and Titan Poker trackers. I need to know if these still work because if not I am going to take them down. I need to save my frontpage space.

[Graham]

Great post xpertadvice! As I mentioned in my other post I don't think my Mansion trackers have been working for the last few weeks along with several other people that have added the same thing to the post (still no response from PAW/Poker News). This leads me to ask, who are the ones really getting rolled? I think this system was flawed from the beginning and many people added their opinions on that. I think the rooms should have some requirements to get the CPA and would have had no problem still using the trackers based on that. As for promoting a site like Purple Lounge, I didn't even bother because I don't think much of their site to begin with. I agree though about the part that it is our job to get the players to deposit on their site, and their responsibility to retain them (for CPA deals). If I am on MGR, then I want those players to keep coming back. I am not trying to roll anyone and have really started to push Mansion since their addition to the PAW system. Take a look at my site and you will see. Even if I do bring them a couple bad players (which really is beyond my control), I think they still are getting a good deal as they are getting free advertising to between 300-400 people that visit my site per day that don't sign up with them. I think that has some value as well. I have removed all the PAW trackers from my site until there is some update of what is going on with the rooms.

Originally Posted by xpertadvice4u

I do not think this is an entirely fair characterization.
The vast majority of new players are FISH.
The system requires them for the so-called big players to feast off.

The fish are not entirely stupid, and are legitimately hesitant to deposit a large amount of money. The Poker Rooms know this, and set a low enough minimum for most Fish to bite at.

The problem is that $25 is not going to last a fish very long, and a lot are going to bust out. When they get more money available, they may or may not re-deposit....depends on how they felt about their experience with the site, the software, user-friendliness, whether they got a good run for their money...whether they felt the Poker Room gives a hoot about their business.

I would love to Promote Bodog....they are incredibly consumer-oriented and have tremendous customer relationship savvy. Fish, like me, will continue returning to a site like that time and time again.

A site that has tacky looking software, that does not bother to make their tournament listings user friendly and organized in an intelligible manner, that does not organize the ring games in a logical fashion, and has very few games available at different sized tables - is not going to make a fish very eager to come back and risk some more money.

I referred two players to Purple Lounge, both busted out, one of them redeposited...neither one enjoyed their experience - relative to certain other sites. Supposedly, Poker is for Entertainment purposes...they have a budget they have to live by, and not a bottomless bankroll for Poker purposes.

Neither one of those players lasted long enough to meet bonus requirements, I am sure. So, there was no extra loss to the room there.

So, let's say a better player lasts longer and now gets a $100 bonus.
The Poker Room is now out the $150 CPA PLUS the $100 bonus, which has to be deducted from whatever Rake was generated.

So, the Poker Room is not that much further ahead with the better player UNLESS the better player will come back and play some more and generate some more rake and keep the tables filled and churning more Rake.

What determines that? Well, I assume it is how much they enjoyed their experience with the Room and whether they can exploit the games/fish.
If they cannot find any fish to exploit, they will move on to another room.
Why bother staying? Unless they really enjoy the play for entertainment purposes.

Poker Rooms are no different from casinos, they need a steady supply of small fries to be their bread and butter, because there is only a limited number of whales to go around. The Nickel slots are a huge source of revenue for some casinos.

I am sorry, but I have not been in this business long enough to be attracting whales. I am not trying to "roll" anybody. It's a crapshoot, as far as I can see, in terms of what you are going to get in your nets when you go fishing.

Maybe the more fishing I do, I'll get better at it.

I understand Corpfan's point of view, and Jeremy's.

The arithmetic does not appear to add up: $150 CPA expenditure versus income of the rake on only $25, i.e. only $1.25 seems like a HUGE deficit.
On the individual player basis, it's a huge loss.

But, it is also a Marketing expense, and an opportunity expense, and it creates a churn of new players and indirect benefits to the Room other than simple Rake.

But, I understand that Rake is the bottom line, eventually.

Maybe the $150 CPA is a marketing expense that needs to be spent where it can have the biggest bang for the buck.

And maybe that is not with small, inexperienced affiliates....like ME.

But, still, it requires large schools of small fish to attract the killer whales.

And if a room is attracting enough fish, it will naturally attract the bigger ones, sooner or later.

And I thought that one reason the PAW program made sense was to create a larger volume of new signups...in other words, casting a bigger net, and hopefully catching bigger fish.

I am sorry it is not working...so far.

But, like I say...isn't it kind of short sighted to only look at one or two month's revenue, and just look at the individual player calculation?
Aren't there indirect benefits?

Why do the rooms need to take these measures in the first place?

I look at places like Tony G's and I just don't see why I would want to play there. There is never the selection of games I would be attracted to.

And the same thing is happening with Mansion...unless I want to play in their Poker Dome qualifiers, there is no product there that attracts me, tournament wise...and very little in the way of sit n go's or ring games.

But they have made a business decision not to offer very many MTTs other than their Branded qualifiers and satellites.

Time will tell if that model works, I guess.
But clearly, they have defined the type of player that they want, and they appear not interested in catering to any other type of player....and if you are not interested in their product you do not have to play there.

Once you have reached the top, you can afford to be exclusive, I guess.

A company that does not want to pay for the fish, either by marketing, or providing superior customer service and entertainment, will not get them.

And it will not get to the top, numbers wise...although they may be able to survive being an "exclusive boutique" type of operation.

Please educate me if I have missed the point.

I saw the PAW affiliate program to be an excellent opportunity for me to get my feet wet in the industry, and to get started earning an ROI.

Participating in PAW deprives me of the opportunity to earn a reputation and a relationship on my own with the various companies....all the credit goes to PAW.

I have never heard back from a certain Affiliate Manager since I told him I was going to promote his product through PAW.

Participating in PAW will be more important than ever, if companies refuse to pay me because I am US based.

I would like to see this work, also.

But, shouldn't there be better communication about what programs are still a priority, and should be pushed, and which trackers work?

Will the trackers issued for Purple Lounge continue to be honored, for example? For how long?

Just let people know what is going on, please.

[Darko]

while i agree with some of the stuff you said xpertadvice4u, But i do think lots of affiliates are doing the CPA scams with the min deposit etc..... its no suprise to me as i started as a casino affiliate about 14 months ago and just before i started, loads of the casino affiliate programs dropped there CPA (big programs like 888.com ) because of affiliate scams, now most casino programs only offer rev share (or you have to start on rev share before they consider a cpa). . . . . so it has already been proven that although you have good affiliates, you have loads and loads of bad ones.

If your a good affiliate who sends normal players, you'll have no problems getting these sorts of CPA's anyway.


but what about keeping the trackers live and just banning / dropping the very suspicious looking affiliates - so only the normal looking accounts can remain on the network - which is exactly how the cpa works now if you have one directly with the room (if you send really bad players or offer incentives to deposit etc, they will switch you to rev share)

[ozim]

I really like your post xpertadvice4u.

The irony of this whole thing is that the biggest players like Stars or Party - the rooms that will get their players anyway - do not offer high CPA (unless you send them plenty of players). They don't care.

On the other hand, the new, small rooms seem to be DESPERATE for new players so they offer affiliates high CPAs to get any promotion at all. But the players do not enjoy their sites and leave and some people WHO GOT THEIR BUSINESS MODEL TOTALLY WRONG blame affiliates. That's sick. I guess that if u are a new player on this extremly competitive market you have to be prepared to spend more than a year investing f... big $$$$ just to get some liquidity. If you invest $150 and say... oops, it made me no money - the affiliate has robbed me... I don't know what you are doing in this business.

And yes, I know there is a scam out there. Maybe I don't get something but to me it seems so easy to get rid of it - just intrudce some criteria that a player has to meet before the affiliate is paid. It's simple, but if your site sucks and you want to get all the players in the world then you don't wanna discourage affiliates. You offer them high CPA and if you don't get some young online genious quattre-tabling at 5/10 then you can always say that the affiliate robbed you and get rid of him.

[sizzz]

hey guys... i do support the opinion that it is not our fault if the sites cant hold the players... our job is bringing them new players who deposit... now whether a player is going to stay in a room for a long time or not depends on the poker room and its quality... how should we affect that? Of course, there is some scam, talking about affiliates who let all their friends, collegues, deposit the min and get the cpa... but this is the only way... even if a new player deposits, and at first does only play the min requirements, a poker room does not loose lots of money anyway by such offers... first of all they got a new player, they got a little deposit and the possibility that this player might come back...
i really cant get and i find it ridiculous that rooms are crying about affiliates not bringing the right players... this is just not our work and how should we know what type of a player somebody is who comes to our site and signs up?...
Just my 2 cents...