Question of Legalitys for you US affiliates

[Zabulus]

Are you US affiliates able to promote sites "legally" from say party poker? Since they don't accept US players anyways? Would that be legal for you?

[Beanie]

I think the consensus is that yes it would be.

Probably the more relevant question is promoting a room that takes Americans players, but you recruit only foriegn players. What would be the ramifications of something like that.

[joeker]

I think it would definitely be legal to promote non-US sites like Party.

Promoting sites that accept Americans is sticky, you really need ot look at your state's laws more than Federal on this. The 11-state ban Prima put into effect is a good start.

Of course the other issue is enforcement....will there be any? I would say it's doubtful for a number of reasons.

[GregK]

Been wondering about some details myself?

Yanks are great at passing the buck & personal responsibility to others lol
Is it "my" responsibility to police the rooms ever changing policies & where my anonymous visitors click?

I always have & still am (for now) picking my rooms on quality of software, support & a solid parent co. NOT on their blacklist policies.
I have both non-US & worldwide rooms in my lineup for the above reasons...period.

Is this where the line is going to be drawn come July? (or whenever they get around to finalizing thiis clusterphuk?) lol

Worldwide & non-US?

[joeker]

Uhh...no. The UIGEA really has little to do with whether American rakeback affiliates are legal.

This was always a grey legal area with or without the UIGEA

Originally Posted by GregK

Been wondering about some details myself?

Yanks are great at passing the buck & personal responsibility to others lol
Is it "my" responsibility to police the rooms ever changing policies & where my anonymous visitors click?

I always have & still am (for now) picking my rooms on quality of software, support & a solid parent co. NOT on their blacklist policies.
I have both non-US & worldwide rooms in my lineup for the above reasons...period.

Is this where the line is going to be drawn come July? (or whenever they get around to finalizing thiis clusterphuk?) lol

Worldwide & non-US?

[stillshadow]

Joe: Why "Uh, no?" Greg makes some good points and raises some good questions. In short, this issue hasn't been addressed at all by the government. In fact, they haven't really done anything with this law since it was signed. The only effects we've seen are voluntary ones from public companies.

Basically, proceed at your own risk for now. Everyone (gaming lawyers included) is making their own conclusions and interpretations, so who knows what is really legal or illegal? Who knows what will happen, if anything, when that ominous day in July comes? As Jeremy has mentioned in the past, I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance as an affiliate. If you choose to not promote online poker from the US anymore, that's fine with me.

[Jeremy]

It has been and always will be a gray area for affiliates. And yes it does have to do with your risk tolerance.

Personally I am not going to make my desicions based upon what a publicly traded company overseas does. They have a lot more at stake and many more variables involved as to why they don't take U.S. players.

The thing to remember is that we as affiliates do not process payments, or own a gaming or sportsbetting platform. Essentially we are nothing more than marketers working on a commission. If I was a pharmaceutical rep in the U.S. and the government decided that a certain drug was dangerous and killing people, and then the govt. decided to pull it from the market and fine the company.......are they going to come after me the rep.?

Doubtful at best in my opinion. And if they did, they would have a much harder case than simply going after the main company. Guys, none of us are on the payroll or board of gaming companies. To think we are targets right now is silly in my opinion.

Yes I think we need to procede with caution and diversify, but thinking that we may be arrested for simply being an affiliate making a few thousand a month (which is not even the average for affiliates) is just nuts.

Whether the actual rooms accepts U.S. players or not should really have no bearing on us as affiliates. I imagine if I got busted for being a poker affiliate, it would not matter if it was Party or Stars I was promoting dependant on the rooms inter company policy about U.S. players.

[joeker]

My point was that the UIGEA has very little to do with whether or not being a poker affiliate is legal or not in the USA

All the UIGEA does is address the transferring of funds to gaming sites.

The grey legal area with being an affiliate has to do with sharing in the profits of a gambling site. That has ALWAYS been a grey area, way before the UIGEA was passed.

Furthermore the nature of the affiliate business does not involved the transferring of funds to gaming sites, it involves sharing in the revenue and receiving funds from gaming sites.

The UIGEA obviously shines a brighter light on the subject, but it's not directly relevant to whether poker affiliates are a legal business in the USA.

Originally Posted by stillshadow

Joe: Why "Uh, no?" Greg makes some good points and raises some good questions. In short, this issue hasn't been addressed at all by the government. In fact, they haven't really done anything with this law since it was signed. The only effects we've seen are voluntary ones from public companies.

Basically, proceed at your own risk for now. Everyone (gaming lawyers included) is making their own conclusions and interpretations, so who knows what is really legal or illegal? Who knows what will happen, if anything, when that ominous day in July comes? As Jeremy has mentioned in the past, I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance as an affiliate. If you choose to not promote online poker from the US anymore, that's fine with me.

[joeker]

Very well put and I agree completely.

There are things every affiliate can do to lower their profile, like hosting off shore, keeping registrations anonymous or under a name in a country where it is legal, like the UK for example.

I honestly think the worse case scenario would be a "cease and desist" letter as opposed to arrests.

And remember, enforcement is much more likely to come on a state level than Federal. Prima understood this when they instituted the 11-state ban (that never really went into effect )....in these states it's pretty apparent that an affiliate would be comitting a felony. The other states it's much more questionable.

Originally Posted by Jeremy

It has been and always will be a gray area for affiliates. And yes it does have to do with your risk tolerance.

Personally I am not going to make my desicions based upon what a publicly traded company overseas does. They have a lot more at stake and many more variables involved as to why they don't take U.S. players.

The thing to remember is that we as affiliates do not process payments, or own a gaming or sportsbetting platform. Essentially we are nothing more than marketers working on a commission. If I was a pharmaceutical rep in the U.S. and the government decided that a certain drug was dangerous and killing people, and then the govt. decided to pull it from the market and fine the company.......are they going to come after me the rep.?

Doubtful at best in my opinion. And if they did, they would have a much harder case than simply going after the main company. Guys, none of us are on the payroll or board of gaming companies. To think we are targets right now is silly in my opinion.

Yes I think we need to procede with caution and diversify, but thinking that we may be arrested for simply being an affiliate making a few thousand a month (which is not even the average for affiliates) is just nuts.

Whether the actual rooms accepts U.S. players or not should really have no bearing on us as affiliates. I imagine if I got busted for being a poker affiliate, it would not matter if it was Party or Stars I was promoting dependant on the rooms inter company policy about U.S. players.