Rakeback discussion in Amsterdam

[Kyle]

Beanie could you PM me your site URL? ... kinda hard to comment on this thread without seeing your site.

Beanie has been marketing without a site for years and has many of the biggest players on the net under his trackers. This is one of the things that makes him a bit different than most any other rakeback guy out there. All of his business is word of mouth and I do know that he gives first class service to his clients.

I do know he has gotten out of the dinosaur age though and has a fancy high tech site now for his players to track their raked hands and the amount in their accounts.

As far as marketing though and briniging in new business, none of it is internet driven.

Even for those that don't do rakeback or think it is just plain evil I do ask that we respect the rakeback providers that are brave enough to post here. Neither of us are going away and no one's opinion are likely going to be swayed, but it makes sense to keep our discussions professional.

[Beanie]

Screw you. J/K-I really am looking forward to being more involved in this community. It is neat to see how you guys have flourished.

[Georgia Poker]

Beanie, if you read my statement vs. skimming over the main points you may have noticed this-

It's just not worth it to try and compete against these morons (present company excluded).

Beanie (Paul), we spoke on the phone several times in the past and I think we ran into each other once. Anyways, I don't have any problems with how you do business. I was referring the vast majority of the remaining fly by night operations that are bottom feeding.

I have the upmost respect for anyone that works outside of the box and creates a unique product that people want. Unfortunately, 99% of the rake back sites out there are nothing more than 3-4 month operations AT BEST and they run with honest players money. They also poach and in the end, no one wins except the bottom feeders.

The purpose of my post was to highlight two things:

1. The vast majority of rake back providers out there are fly by night operations. How can anyone argue this? I've said my peace regarding this so I'm done

2. In regards to other big affiliates always bitching about rake back poachers, I say get over it! I'm not the biggest fish in the pond but I do refer a few thousand players to my top sites every year. I have my niche that I market and it serves me well. Do I lose players to rake back? ABSOLUTELY. I can watch a player from abc.net poker room sign up under me and start going off the hook generating rake. After a few months he just drops off the face of the earth. Where the hell do you think he went? Of course a few of them go broke but they typically come back, I'm well aware that most of them have been poached by rake back. While I may speak my mind about what I think of the rake backs that poach, I won't bitch about it. There's a difference.

Again, to underscore what I said earlier. I'm not talking about Beanie or anyone else that runs a legit business and truly understands the value of a customer. I understand the value of a customer, Beanie, Jeremy and many others here understand that as well. Unfortunately for the industry, there are many out there that do not... And they are harming us ALL.

[absentx]

This is a pretty civil rakeback discussion, I am impressed.

Cheaters and fly by nighters have to go. Everyone has always said that and I completely agree. Alot of the best sites are really tight operations though and are excellent to work with. One good thing is that there is a very large and well funded group of rakeback providers that are visible in the poker community and can provide great service. There are so many good choices it makes it harder for the cheaters.

[PokerMaster]

my opinion:
neither here nor there as we say in scotland,
I am not really in the rakeback market, but rakeback is here like it or not.
I believe the poker affiliate market is more than saturated, if beanie has been in buisiness for 5 years then he deserves customer loyalty at least, and the same goes for all other affiliates. I think there could be a certain amount of discrimination as far as the poker companys are concerned as far as not offering any new sites mrg that havent been established long, and stopping any new rakeback affiliates, and disqualifying any untrustworthy ones.

[getinthewpt.com]

I think rakeback is a bad bad option for poker rooms. Is the loss of profits necessary? Poker is huge and will only continue to grow, why give an incentive that isn't needed?

[Beanie]

Certainly Todd, I know you meant no disrespect for me. I know that rakeback was born by many people from a negative context. I think that is changing and I hope I can be a part of that. Ironically, the thing that makes my program what it is isn't rakeback. Anyone can do that. I certainly think P5's is a perfect example of principles that I use in my business.

To answer getinthewpt is because that is what the market dictates. As the industry gets more competitive even non rakeback affiliates will have to be creative in regards to promotion and have to spend money. Many can not give rakeback because they spend so much in the first place. To get player A from site C sometimes it takes a little $

Also getinthewpt, in the future the amount of new players will slow, and sites will focus more on player retention, and attracting players from other sites to come to them. This is very important now of course, but will be even more important down the road.

Rakeback is a great way to keep them there, and attract them from others (if you can beat out the other sites).

[Beanie]

I have a huge project that I am in investor in that is completely opposite of rakeback. But it is for brand new players completely. I am great friend with the guys from p5's and if you want a non rakeback site you need to be prepared to do something as grand as they have done.

I have to say, for the most part PPP is right and he knows that I know that. But the tide is certainly turning and sites like mine basically start the ball rolling to putting all of the rogue guys out of business.