Quote:
Originally Posted by RakeAway 
This is the way I view things. If anyone still disagrees with the fact that this is completely harmless, then so be it. I don't think I can make this post any clearer.
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Clearer? Well, you said you were going to talk about *two* situations, but then listed *three*
The way *you* view things was
crystal clear from the beginning.
PPP does not care about how *you* view things, he only wants you to switch to seeing things his way.
PPP wants you to believe that:
- the first site which noobies visit still deserves credit for the sale and that their efforts contributed in some way to the final sale by another site, and therefore you are a "thief"
- you are an accomplice to the thousands of scam artists ripping off Poker rooms by signing up duplicate accounts, merely because they had no idea they could clear cookies before they visited your "fraud-mongering" site, and you have now helped educate them
- telling the scam artists about clearing cookies is going to substantially harm the poker rooms, because they have no other way of knowing if a computer has visited/signed up at their room before (which is simply untrue)
- the proportion/ratio of players visiting Big Site A and then Small Site B is somehow the same as visiting Small B first and then visiting Big A, which is rubbish. He tried to claim that you could use a 10% figure for purposes of argument, and apply that to both types of sites. That is a total abuse of statistical reasoning. The statistical probability of Big A visit first, and then Small B, is much, much greater than Small B first and then Big A.
- the fact that you *might* get commissions for players converted on your behalf by a big room somehow makes up for the genuine loss of income you suffer from losing conversions to prior cookies.
He has no interest in legitimately discussing your proposed business model, for the simple reason that it is *not* his business model, and therefore it is - by his definition - inferior, and likely morally corrupt.
He really does not care that if you are going to offer incentives out of your future commissions you *
absolutely must get paid the commission* in order to make up for the incentives you offered out of your future commission.
If you promise somebody an incentive, and then it turns out that the commission goes to a prior cookie, then you are *
screwed* and will quickly go broke. Not only are you out the CPA fee, but you can end up losing the cost of the incentive.
I think the whole incentive thing is *very* risky unless you have your own Bonus/Referral codes.
And,
PPP, is correct that you are probably going to be targeted by scam artists.
PartyforFree - a member of this forum - has experience as an incentive marketer, and maybe you should talk to him - if you have not talked to other incentive marketers already (which you seem to have done, because you appear to have set up deals with them).
You will notice that the biggest incentive marketer of all - Pokersourceonline - only offers Free Money for sites which they have their own referral code for...and
fraud is *still* a problem for them. The presence of cookies is irrelevant to the fraud issue for them.
The bottom line is this:
PPP tells you not to worry about clearing cookies, and that it will all balance out equally in the end: your losses will be covered by income that you don't really deserve.
There is no guarantee that you will make up the losses from income *you* do not deserve, and why *should* you have to rely on income you do *not* deserve in the first place???
It is amazing that this self-righteous guy - who considers himself morally superior to all other affiliates - does not see anything morally/ethically wrong with you getting fees for Real Money Players whom you did not "close."
The answer, of course, is that PPP is a huge, successful affiliate, and he knows that he will earn twice or three times as much as you do from the CPAs he snags when you convert for him.
The few, insignificant conversions that *you* are able to "steal" from him via prior cookies really are a tiny drop in the bucket of *his* income, which he can afford to blow off as something that just "evens out in the wash."
In fact, your chances of "stealing" a commission from sites like PokerNews are ZERO, because of all of their proprietary bonus codes and referral codes which will over-ride your cookies. The idea that they are "converting" for you is therefore nonsense.
Jeremy? tell me I am wrong. Tell me that a player with cookies from my site will still be credited to me once he signs up for the special Free Roll deals PokerNews has with all major Rooms.
PPP can afford to be cavalier about the imperfections in the system - because he is making a great deal of money with the way things are right now, thank you very much.
If you convince people to clear cookies, however, he will never make a single dime off of you again....and that brands you a thief in his eyes.
So, you better just shut up, and stop trying to throw a monkey wrench into the system....or else you will be called a liar and a cheater ON NO OTHER GROUNDS THAN ONE SINGLE POST TO THIS FORUM.
That is what is so hilarious about this thread, and this guy.
You are merely trying to get paid for the work you legitimately do in signing somebody up....
and this guy tries to paint you as a thief stealing money out of the mouths of hard-working affiliates....
In reality, the system is set up to benefit the poker rooms and the big affiliates (of course, because they created the system in the first place).
Even though it is clear you deserve credit for the sale, folks like PPP will go through all sorts of logical contortions to make sure they continue to profit at your expense....including smearing your name and reputation.
These are the kinds of people who like to Piss on your leg and then tell you that it is raining.