[xpertadvice4u]

Originally Posted by Kyle

If you want to continue this chat over a beer in Amsterdam, at the Casino Affiliate Convention coming up in may , I will be happy to do that!

Kyle: you said you don't sugarcoat things, and neither do I - sometimes.

I appreciate - totally respect - and admire your willingness to add some Beer to the mix - which would be a great suggestion after we have mixed it up this way with each other in this forum!

Unfortunately, I can't make it to CAC, but I hope to buy you some Moosehead in Montreal CAC this September!

People often don't understand how Canadians can crosscheck each other in Lacrosse or Hockey and then go have a beer later! Ohhh Canadaaaaa!

Originally Posted by Kyle

Let me try and slow this down for you:...


As for SEO being part of marketing I still say it isn't. To me marketing means selling the product, making the lead or sale.

That's your own peculiar definition then...Most resources I have consulted suggest SEO falls squarely within the domain of Marketing. There is NO OTHER REASON to do SEO.

Originally Posted by Kyle

SEO puts your product in front of eyeballs. SEO surely has little to do with marketing when it can't sell a product. You can have a #1 ranking on google for your term and still not sell a thing.

Absolute agreement about sentences 1 & 2. But there is only one reason to put product in front of eyeballs (aside from mental masturbation): and that is for marketing.

Originally Posted by Kyle

You are assuming that search engine traffic, especially targeted traffic, magically equals sales. You are wrong.

This is your straw man hypothesis, which you insist on knocking down repeatedly...but you've got the wrong assumption! I don't believe *that* at all, which I indicated earlier....the charlatans tell you that sales will magically appear, but that is not my expectation. So, please don't tar me with that brush of stupidity or naivete.

I am going at it in reverse: There will be no sales without traffic. That is indisputable. No point to the fancy website with no eyeballs viewing it.

But you're totally right, lots of people may view a page without actually increasing the ROI...nobody in this thread said there was a perfect correlation.

But there can be ZERO correlation: and that is that the correlation between having a website and ROI will be ZERO without traffic from search engines and SEO. I know this the hard way.

Originally Posted by Kyle

In addition to SEO you need a very solid marketing plan to be successful on the the internet, because SEO doesn't sell for you....for me experience trumps all and the bottom line is marketing = sales , something which is different from SEO.

You are entirely correct that Marketing - and ROI - go way beyond the domain of SEO....there are many other things involved - which is why SEO is defined as being a "subset" of Search Engine Marketing...and I would suggest it is a "subspecialty" area.

But...if one wanted to nitpick about definitions, one would have to point out that Marketing and Sales are two different disciplines (but related), and have different skill sets...so I disagree with your equation that marketing=sales.

Most people I know with specialties in "Marketing" would feel insulted if you told them they were doing "sales." I know a number of people who claim to be "in Marketing" who would suck at doing sales....and a number of sales guys who would want nothing to do with a hard-core Marketing environment...not enough action and nitty-gritty stuff for them.

But, regardless, sales people are engaged in the process of creating new customers...and that is what DRUCKER says Marketing is all about.

At least you have acknowledged the following:

Originally Posted by Kyle

SEO puts your product in front of eyeballs.

And, the point of putting products in front of eyeballs is to create new clients.

So, I will end this discussion of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with one final assertion:

There is no reason to pay guys like you the big bucks unless there were a significant connection between putting products in front of eyeballs, marketing and ROI.

If the one had "little" to do with the other, nobody would pay for the service at all. SEO is done to put products in front of eyeballs, and products are put in front of eyeballs as part of a marketing campaign, and the marketing campaign is *expected* to increase ROI - otherwise it is *dumped* and they start over.

Still, I suspect that the techie guys that maintain corporate servers that host websites and "marketing materials" do not see themselves as doing anything involved with Marketing...but if they failed to do their jobs properly, there would be little ROI derived from the websites.

And, what they do is hard to describe as being "marketing," as opposed to Network Management, or being a computer technician.

So, maybe the desire to view yourself as a specialty technician - of sorts - motivates you to downplay the connection between what you do and Marketing.

Thus, I'll respect your desire to have what you do called something other than Marketing.

I think I have the perfect analogy! You are like the Quebecois who want to assert their cultural identity, and I am like the Anglophones who say "call yourself whatever you want, but you are still Canadian!"

Now, thank goodness the Mohawks at Kahnewake refuse to admit they are Canadians! We could lose a lot of our gambling-related business if Canada tried to regulate the Reservations' licensing racket.

Over - and Out...of this thread.